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Ayodhya Nath Bhat
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« on: February 25, 2004, 08:50:43 AM »

Eucharist: Helps the Dead

Partaking of the Eucharist purportedly gives Catholics who are still alive an opportunity to help the dead:

"The Eucharistic sacrifice is also offered for the faithful departed who 'have died in Christ but are not yet wholly purified, so that they may be able to enter into the light and peace of Christ.'" Pg. 345, #1371
"In the Eucharist, the Church expresses her efficacious communion with the departed..." Pg. 420 #1689
 

This heart-tugging doctrine indoctrinates Roman Catholics with the belief that regularly receiving the Eucharist will help their departed loved ones reach heaven faster.

If this doctrine is of God, then you should obey it. But if it' s a tradition devised by men to keep people in bondage to a church, then it is a cruel and heartless method of controlling people. Let's see what God says about it.

Never mentioned

You can search the Scriptures from beginning to end, but you will not find the Eucharist helping a single dead person. And not one Bible character ever received the Eucharist on behalf of a departed loved one.

As you may suspect, this Catholic tradition is not only absent from God's Word, it directly violates it as well. The Bible teaches that we will each give account for our own life:

"So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." Romans 14:12

Jesus did all the work

People enter heaven solely because of the good work Jesus Christ did on the cross. Salvation is a gift from God, not an item earned by our righteousness or the righteousness of friends and loved ones.

Death, then judgment

The Bible declares that after death, everyone faces God for judgment. There are no more chances:

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" Hebrews 9:27

Those who do not put their faith in Christ while they are alive are already condemned to hell:

"He that believeth on him (Jesus) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

The wrath of God abides on those who die without Christ:

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36

The Bible says nothing about God's wrath being pacified because someone received the Eucharist on behalf of departed loved ones. The only way to avoid the condemnation of God is by placing your faith in Jesus Christ while you are alive. Jesus declared:

"... He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24  

Conclusion

Once again, you are left with several questions which must be answered:

Why is this tradition of the Catholic church so diametrically opposed to God's Holy Word?
Why does the Catholic church want members performing rituals for the dead, when God's Word says such practices are useless?
Is this but another method of keeping people in bondage to the Catholic church?
Most importantly, you need to understand that to continue practicing this man-made tradition, you must reject the very words of Jesus Christ. Are you sure you want to do this?

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." Colossians 2:8

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"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"   Gal. 4:16
Rev. Eric
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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2004, 10:37:06 PM »

Ayodhya,

It seems to me that you have the mistaken notion that Catholics believe that we can pray someone out of hell.  That is not the case.  Hell is eternal.

But if I have a friend who dies, I do not yet know for certain where he ended up.  I offer prayers and Masses for him in hopes that he escaped hell and is in Purgatory, where he can benefit from these prayers.

Furthermore, my prayers are offered up from a temporal realm, but God receives and acts on them from an eternal realm (i.e., outside the bounds of time and space).  Therefore, if I pray on behalf on my deceased friend, it is possible that God can answer those prayers and award grace to my friend while my friend was still alive.  God can operate as if he had a time machine, so to speak.  This is not an official teaching of the Church; I simply offer this as speculation.  But we are empowered  to pray on behalf of one another, and God can answer those prayers in a variety of ways that transcend time and space.

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You can search the Scriptures from beginning to end, but you will not find the Eucharist helping a single dead person. And not one Bible character ever received the Eucharist on behalf of a departed loved one.
Once again, you are appealing to the Doctrine of Sola Scriptura.  Mass for the Dead does not have to be in the bible.  If you still believe otherwise then return to your topic "Why Follow the Bible?" and defend your belief against the posts that we Catholics have presented.

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Why is this tradition of the Catholic church so diametrically opposed to God's Holy Word?
Why does the Catholic church want members performing rituals for the dead, when God's Word says such practices are useless?
Wrong.  God's Word includes 2Maccabees - just because Protestants decided to toss it out of the bible doesn't mean that Catholics should.  Praying for the dead and making offerings for the dead is acting "very well and honorably" (2Macc 12:43).  Below, in blue, I will post Catholic Answer's elaboration on 2Macc 12:39-45.

Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead: "In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin" (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell. That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily. This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that, at the time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.

Prayers for the dead and the consequent doctrine of purgatory have been part of the true religion since before the time of Christ. Not only can we show it was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees, but it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the Mourner’s Kaddish for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified. It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory. Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches, which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians.  
(From: http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp)

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Most importantly, you need to understand that to continue practicing this man-made tradition, you must reject the very words of Jesus Christ. Are you sure you want to do this?
Speaking of man-made traditions, I'm still waiting for you to return to your topic "Why Follow the Bible?" and explain how your doctrine of Sola Scriptura is not itself a man-made tradition.

God bless,
Rev. Eric
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DavidFilmer
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« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2004, 01:53:42 AM »

If Ayodhya plans to cut-and-paste the works of others, the least he could do is attribute it. Ayodhya plagerized this content from the book "Understanding Roman Catholicism," copyright 1995 by Rick Jones, which is posted (with permission and attrition) on Jack Chick's website (Jack Chick is a professional anti-Catholic):

http://www.chick.com/reading/books/160/160_14.asp
« Last Edit: March 20, 2004, 02:22:37 AM by DavidFilmer » Logged

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In religion, What damned error, but some sober brow Will bless it and approve it with a text
- Bassanio, "The Merchant of Venice" (by William Shakespeare),  Act III Scene II .
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