Purgatory

[Ayodhya Nath Bhat]

While on this topic of life after death,let us examine the following:

Purgatory

Catholicism teaches that after death, some people are sent to a place called purgatory for further purification before entering heaven:

"All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. "
"The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect..."  
 

Did this critical doctrine come from God, or is it another tradition of men? Here' s your answer, right out of the Catechism:

"The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent."

Is it unreasonable to ask where a group of men got their information about the afterlife to formulate such a doctrine?

Precious Roman Catholic, if you are praying for loved ones you believe are in purgatory, you need to be aware that God didn't tell you they were there, a group of religious leaders did:

"But at the present time some of his disciples are pilgrims on earth. Others have died and are being purified, while still others are in glory..."  

If you suffer, it's not a gift

What makes this doctrine even more disturbing is that the Bible never indicates such a place exists. Neither does the Bible teach that further purification after death is necessary to earn going to heaven. On the contrary, God's Word declares that salvation is a free gift:

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23
"...by the righteousness of one (Jesus) the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Romans 5:18
 

Would an honest, loving God offer you eternal life as a free gift - then make you suffer to earn it - then lie about it in His Word?

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" Ephesians 2:8  

If the Bible is to be believed, then there is no need for further purification for those who die in Christ. They have already been justified by Jesus:

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Romans 5:9
"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" Romans 3:24
 

The Apostle Paul drives home this same point:

"And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus..." 1 Corinthians 6:11  

True Christians are already purified because Jesus put away all sin on the cross:

"...but now once in the end of the world hath he (Jesus) appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." Hebrews 9:26  

God's children are not required to suffer for salvation because they have been bought and paid for:

"For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." 1 Corinthians 6:20

The price was the blood of Jesus Christ:

"...feed the church of God, which he (Jesus) hath purchased with his own blood." Acts 20:28  

Conclusion

If the Bible is so clear on this subject, why did the Catholic church institute a doctrine that has persuaded faithful members to give multiplied millions of dollars to the church to have prayers and Masses said on behalf of departed loved ones? You must answer that for yourself.

Now, at least you know that the doctrine of purgatory was hatched from the minds of mortal men:

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Melody]

Dear Ayodhya,

I am a Roman Catholic & as such believe completely in all the teachings of the Catholic Church, including Purgatory.

Firstly, I would like to appreciate the way in which you worded your post. You were very Christ-like (unlike many Catholics & Christians who argue with each other worse than un-believers).

The Catholic point of view wrt Purgatory has it's basis in Scripture. It's not as if Council just sat around & decided "Let's make up Purgatory, so that we can get money into the church"!! Un-doubtedly the Catholic Church (which was the original church, till the protestants broke away from it) made many mistakes; a lot of them money & power based in earlier years (which gave ppl like Luther & Calvin valid cause for concern) but it doesn't mean that everything that the Catholic Church advocates which isn't in accordance with Christian sects is wrong.

Is it unreasonable to ask where a group of men got their information about the afterlife to formulate such a doctrine?

Not at all! It is very reasonable to want to study & verify something! If you really want to understand the Catholic point of view, I suggest you study certain Scripture relating to which the Church teaches about Purgatory. Here is one link which provides many such Scriptures.

Alternatively you could check out this link which explains the concept as per the Catholic teachings.

As a Christian you may not accept the concept, but as my brother in Christ, do not deny me my freedom to believe in something that I have studied about.

Praise Jesus,

Melody

[Rev. Eric]

Hello Ayodhya,

I would like to address some of the points you made concerning Purgatory.  Please excuse this lengthy reply, but I cannot be brief in light of the various things you raised.

You asked, "Is it unreasonable to ask where a group of men got their information about the afterlife to formulate such a doctrine?"

No, that is not unreasonable to ask at all.  From the Catholic perspective, we got this doctrine from God.  Eccumenical councils do not invent doctrine, but affirm, under the guaranteed guidance of the Holy Spirit, what has been revealed to us from God.  Some doctrines are revealed in Sacred Scripture, and some are revealed in Sacred Tradition.  The Doctrine of Purgatory does not need to be specifically spelled out in the Bible any more than the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity.

You also stated, "Precious Roman Catholic, if you are praying for loved ones you believe are in purgatory, you need to be aware that God didn't tell you they were there, a group of religious leaders did."  

Following what I mentioned above, this "group of religious leaders" acted under the guaranteed guidance of the Holy Spirit; it is the same divine inspiration that went into the recording of Sacred Scripture.  So as far as we are concerned, God did, indeed, tell us that people are in purgatory.  Keep in mind that it was also a "group of religious leaders" who gave us the Bible - Moses, the prophets, the apostles, etc.  (all acting, of course, as the instruments of God).  No where does the Bible say that God's revelation is limited to the words contained in the Bible.

Furthermore you commented on the sufferings of Purgatory with the statement: "If you suffer, it's not a gift."

Well, it seems to me if the alternative is eternal damnation then it certainly is a gift.  Chemotherapy is a painful ordeal, but compared to dying an even more painful death from cancer, it is a gift.  But let us be clear about our understanding of the sufferings of purgatory.  It is a purification process, it is not the same kind of thing as the torments of hell.  For the simple fact that purgatory delays someone from entering the perfection of heaven, it would be considered a kind of suffering.

Next I will address your point, "Would an honest, loving God offer you eternal life as a free gift - then make you suffer to earn it - then lie about it in His Word?"  No, He would not.  But Catholics do not believe that suffering in Purgatory earns their way into heaven.  When we die, we are judged by Christ and our desitination is either heaven or hell.  Purgatory is a "pit stop" on the way to heaven for those who have not been purified enough to enter into the perfection of heaven.  Purgatory is an example of the mercy of God.  But anyone in Purgatory already has a place for them in heaven won by the Blood of the Lamb; they are not earning it.  Catholics still believe, like you, that salvation is a free gift, but we see Purgatory as being a part of this free gift.  It is provided to us, by God, for our own sake.

Furthermore, you said, "True Christians are already purified because Jesus put away all sin on the cross.".  I believe that Jesus died for my sins and I believe that for this reason, and only this reason, I can attain salvation.  But does this mean that I am purified here and now?  I still sin, so I can't be very pure.  We all are sinners in  the here and now, and I think it is correct to assume that we will be sinners when we die.  But we will not be sinners in heaven.  Therefore, God does something to purify us in between.  Catholics call this "something" purgatory.

Along these lines, consider the Bible passages you quoted on purification:
"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Romans 5:9
"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" Romans 3:24
"...by the righteousness of one (Jesus) the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Romans 5:18

Unless I am mistaken, you are interpreting these passages to mean that a Christian is completely purified in this life.  But I read them as referring to the fact that, due to sin, we have all earned a place in hell, but the sacrifice of Christ has the power to overturn this judgement.  Paul's use of the term "justification" refers to a judgement pronounced in a courtroom-type setting.  Furthermore, as Christians, we can participate in this salvation here and now, before the time of our judgement is upon us (even though we are still free to reject Christ later and enter into damnation).  I do not believe that Paul's teachings on justification in any way discount the existance of or need for purgatory.  Just because I do not end up in hell (because of the saving power of justification) does not mean that I am also pure enough to immediately enter heaven.

Finally I would like to address your statement:  "What makes this doctrine even more disturbing is that the Bible never indicates such a place exists. Neither does the Bible teach that further purification after death is necessary to earn going to heaven."

I will agree that the Doctrine of Purgatory is not specifically spelled out in the bible, but, as I mentioned earlier, from a Catholic perspective it does not need to be.  But I will put forth the proposition that the Bible implies a type of purification process in the afterlife.  Consider the attonement of the dead described in 2Macc 12:43-45 (I realize that many non-Catholic Christians do not accept the Books of Maccabees as Sacred Scripture, but Catholics do so one should expect us to quote it to defend our beliefs).

Futhermore, Jesus tells us in Mt 5:25, "Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, least your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you will be put into prison; truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny."  No doubt people will interpret this passage in different ways, but if the judge symbolically refers to God then this passage describes a sort of prison where a person will eventually be released after a period of accountability.  Clearly this prison cannot be hell, where there is no possibility of release.

In the third chapter of 1Cor, Paul describes Christians who build upon the foundation of Christ.  God sends a test (described as a fire) to reveal the quality of what has been built.  Paul tells us, "If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.  If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1Cor 3:15).  Yes, I admit that this passage can be interpreted in different ways, but Catholics have traditionally interpreted the "reward" as being heaven and the part about being "saved...through fire" as being purgatory.

Jesus said the following to the chief priests and elders in the temple,  "Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.  For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the harlots believed him; and even when you saw it, you did not afterward repent and believe him."  (Mt 21:31-32).  Once again, there are different ways to interpret this passage.  But if Jesus is referring to heaven then how do the tax collectors and harlots enter heaven "before" the chief priests and elders?  If there is no purgatory then that means that the tax collectors and harlots have to die first.

Catholics agree that salvation and justification is won by Christ and that it is a free gift.  But the question is: how is this salvation/justification/gift is applied?  The Bible does not spell out the process.  If you formulate a process that is different from the Catholic doctrine concerning purgatory, then all you can say is that this Catholic doctrine does not fit within your personal interpretation of scripture.  From our standpoint, the doctrine of purgatory was revealed to us by God through the Magesterium of the Church, and it in no way contradicts the Bible.

I hope this information is helpful.  My thanks to anyone who took the time to read all this.

God bless!

[tklein1014]

I'm not a theologian, but just to add to what's already been said, I've heard it said that the only "suffering" that occurs in Purgatory is the fact that you are still apart from God.

Tina

[Seeker]

Great explanation Rev. Eric!  It certainly helped me.  I've also heard that Tina.

[Melody]

Rev, I really liked your use of Chemotherapy to explain the sufferings of Purgatory.

I heard a preacher once tell us that if we went to heaven directly after death, we would see ourselves in God's Light just as He sees us & then we ourselves would jump headfirst into Purgatory! So really it is a beautiful gift from God.

Melody

[tklein1014]

I've also heard that, Melody.  That we actually wouldn't want to be in His presence until we're "ready".

Tina

[DavidFilmer]

If Ayodhya plans to cut-and-paste the works of others, the least he could do is attribute it. Ayodhya plagerized this content from the book "Understanding Roman Catholicism," copyright 1995 by Rick Jones, which is posted (with permission and attrition) on Jack Chick's website (Jack Chick is a professional anti-Catholic):

http://www.chick.com/reading/books/160/160%5F23.asp

[secretman]

The Biblical Doctrine of Purgatory

By Patrick Madrid

So, Do We really know what the Bible says regarding The Purgatory?

God Bless U All!

[Seeker]

Great article!  Thanks for the link.

[cfcoelho]

Great post, keep it up

Colin