Statues & Catholicism

[Melody]

One more chapter of Understanding Roman Catholicism by Rick Jones, the link is http://www.chick.com/reading/books/160/160_26.asp

Note that we've already addressed Statues in this forum under a topic titled Why Don't Christians Venerate Images ?

Here's Jones take:

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Statues
The Catechism requires all Catholics to "venerate" statues, or images of Christ, Mary and others:

"Sacred images in our churches and homes are intended to awaken and nourish our faith in the mystery of Christ. Through the icon of Christ and his works of salvation, it is he whom we adore. Through sacred salvation, it is he whom we adore. Through sacred images of the holy Mother of God, of the angels and of the saints, we venerate the persons represented." Pg. 307, #1192

Regardless of what statues are intended to do, one thing is certain - they transgress God's instructions. When God gave the ten commandments, the second one was:

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:" Exodus 20:4

God also ordered:

"Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the LORD thy God hateth." Deuteronomy 16:22

The Bible concludes that those who make or have statues have been corrupted:

"Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves... Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female..." Deuteronomy 4:15-16

God states His position again:

"Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee." Deuteronomy 4:23

God's Word also expressly forbids people from bowing down to statues, which is customary in the Catholic church. Whenever you see a picture of the pope bowing before a statue of Mary, you should think about this verse of Holy Scripture:

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God..." Exodus 20:5  

In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul explains why God was so adamant about idols:

"What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?... the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils (demons), and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils." 1 Corinthians 10:19-20  

Behind every idol is a literal demon, and God does not want anyone fellowshipping with demons. No wonder God forbids the use of idols:

"Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:4

God hates idolatry:

"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater... with such an one no not to eat." 1 Corinthians 5:11
"For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." Ephesians 5:5
 

Here, God declares that idolaters will not enter heaven. The next verses warns:

"Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience." Ephesians 5:6  

Is the Catholic church deceiving you with vain words? You must decide that for yourself.

Origin of this doctrine

Catholicism does not even pretend that this doctrine came from God:

"Following the divinely inspired teaching of our holy Fathers and the tradition of the Catholic Church (for we know that this tradition comes from the Holy Spirit who dwells in her) we rightly define with full certainty and correctness that, like the figure of the precious and life-giving cross, venerable and holy images of our Lord and God and Savior, Jesus Christ, our inviolate Lady, the holy Mother of God, and the venerated angels, all the saints and the just, whether painted or made of mosaic or another suitable material, are to be exhibited in the holy churches of God, on sacred vessels and vestments, walls and panels, in houses and on streets." Pg. 300, #1161

This doctrine came from the "holy Fathers" and "tradition of the Catholic Church." You are expected to believe that these holy Fathers were "divinely inspired" to violate God's Word. Can you accept this?

The psalmist teaches us even more on the subject:

"The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not; They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths. They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them." Psalm 135:15-18  

In other words, as an idol is deaf and dumb, so everyone who makes idols or trusts in them is devoid of understanding.

This is a powerful warning from a loving and compassionate God.

Conclusion

The Catholic church contends that idols will "awaken and nourish" your faith in "the mystery of Christ." But God's Word forbids their use. Who will you obey?

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 26:1
"For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men..." Mark 7:8
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Happy dissection

Blessings,

Melody

[cfcoelho]

Dear Melody,

This is once again a soul-searching post.If Ayodhya was around he would have been jumping in his seat.At last Sunday's mass ,immediately after the final blessing, I noticed people rushing towards the statue of Our Lady.There was such a mad rush, I wondered if the same prayers or intentions were not considered enough if one prayed from his pew. Don't you think that some of our confused beliefs and practices need to change ?


Colin

[Rev. Eric]

Hello Colin,

If people are making a mad rush to the statue of Our Lady because they feel it is ineffective to pray from the pew, then that would certainly be a problem.  Such an attitude smacks of superstition (i.e., thinking that Mary's attention is fixated within a 5' radius of one of her statues or some such).  But ultimately we do not know what was in the hearts of these people.  It could be that they simply desired to gaze upon the statue up close as a focus of their prayers, which is one of the functions of such an image.  It could be also that they wanted to light devotional candles in front of the statue (assuming that such candles were there in the church you mentioned).  I often like to get close to statues of Jesus, Mary, and the saints so that the images will completely fill my vision (so that there is less distraction to my prayers).  This may be what happened to St. Francis and the Cross of San Damiano.

In any event, I think a "mad rush" to the statue of Our Lady after Mass is better than what I usually see, which is a mad rush to be the first ones out of the parking lot.  Devotion to Mary and the Saints has been in serious decline over the past few decades, so examples of such strong devotion as you witnessed last Sunday could be an encouraging sign of a new era of devotionalism.  But here again, if this devotionalism is tied to superstition then this is a matter that needs to be addressed.

God bless,
-Rev. Eric

[Seeker]

The article is interesting in that it shows how far Jones twists Catholic teaching in order to equate it with something that is obviously evil.  He goes from quoting the Catechism to quoting Scripture.  He can only use Scripture to refute Catholic teaching if you allow him to lead you on a journey of lies and false logic that eventually equates statues and images of holy people and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ with idols and the worship of demons.  He starts with a valid quote from the Catechism, which is risky, because it states Catholic teaching about statues and other religious images.  Maybe he hopes to win points for integrity by quoting the Catechism directly.  However, if the reader compares this to the claims that Jones makes, he should quickly see that Jones' conclusions regarding statues and images in Catholicism is wrong.

The Catechism requires all Catholics to "venerate" statues, or images of Christ, Mary and others:

First wrong statement.  This statement sets up the first misperception of Catholic teaching.  Catholics do not venerate statues per se, but the person they represent.  In addition, Catholics are not “required” to use statues or images of Christ, Mary and others in their prayer life.  These things are recommended as a means to help them  focus in prayer and to draw them closer to Christ.  To Jones' credit, he does reference the Catechism accurately.  However, he goes on to misinterpret the reference and misapply Scripture.  This subtle twisting of the truth is important to the rest of his tract.

"Sacred images in our churches and homes are intended to awaken and nourish our faith in the mystery of Christ. Through the icon of Christ and his works of salvation, it is he whom we adore. Through sacred salvation, it is he whom we adore. Through sacred images of the holy Mother of God, of the angels and of the saints, we venerate the persons represented." Pg. 307, #1192

Regardless of what statues are intended to do, one thing is certain - they transgress God's instructions. When God gave the ten commandments, the second one was:

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:" Exodus 20:4

God also ordered:

"Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the LORD thy God hateth." Deuteronomy 16:22

The Bible concludes that those who make or have statues have been corrupted:

"Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves... Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female..." Deuteronomy 4:15-16

God states His position again:

"Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee." Deuteronomy 4:23

Rick Jones tries to show that any statue or “graven image” breaks God’s commandments.  This smacks of iconoclasm.  God does not forbid all graven images, just those that involve the worship of false gods.  See Ex 25:18-20; Num 21:8-9; 1 Kings 6:23-28; 1 Kings 7:22-29 for examples of graven images God approves of.  In 1 Kings 9:1-3 God blesses the Temple and all that is in it, including the graven images described in 1 Kings.  God’s commandment is against images used to worship false gods.  It is not against the valid use of images to foster worship and love of the one true God.  The next statement sets up the rest of his false conclusions.

God's Word also expressly forbids people from bowing down to statues, which is customary in the Catholic church. Whenever you see a picture of the pope bowing before a statue of Mary, you should think about this verse of Holy Scripture:

Look at the following Scripture references Jones uses.  They all refer to idols and idolatry.  Jones has equated all statues and images with idolatry.  However, there is a big difference between the two, as Scripture clearly shows in the references from Exodus, 1 Kings, and Numbers listed above.   An idol is an image that is worshipped as a god.  Paintings, statues, photos, etc. are in and of themselves not objects of worship in Catholicism.  See the Catechism reference Jones uses above.  It clearly says that.  

Statues and other images are not worshipped in Catholicism, they are reminders to help us focus on that which is worshipped (in the case of Christ), or that which is venerated (in the case of Mary and the saints).  If a Catholic bows to a statue, they are physically expressing their humility before who the statue represents.  To the observer, it may appear that the Catholic is praying to a statue or worshipping a statue.  If that is true, then there is a problem and this person is in error and a slave to idolatry and superstition.  However, God reads the heart and the same physical action that to a human observer seems to be idolatry can be worship of the one true God using an image to reduce distractions.  Who can accurately judge the heart, except God? (Mt 7:2; Lk 6:37; James 5:9; Jer 11:20; 1 Cor 4:5; Heb 4:12)

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God..." Exodus 20:5

In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul explains why God was so adamant about idols:

"What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?... the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils (demons), and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils." 1 Corinthians 10:19-20

Rick Jones' journey into false logic goes even further.  Now that he has equated Catholic statues and images of holy persons with idolatry, he can equate those holy people with demons.  See how far he has twisted the truth?  His premise is based on the assumption that Catholic statues and images are idols based on a poor interpretation of Scripture.  By resorting to this lie, Jones has shown his hand.  Unless a person falls for the lie that all statues and images are idols, Jones cannot use Scripture to attack Catholic teaching and is left with nothing to rant about.

Behind every idol is a literal demon, and God does not want anyone fellowshipping with demons. No wonder God forbids the use of idols:

"Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:4

God hates idolatry:

Of course He does, but the use of statues and images to aid in worship and prayer is not necessarily idolatry.

"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater... with such an one no not to eat." 1 Corinthians 5:11
"For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." Ephesians 5:5

We have seen that God does not forbid the use of statues and images when used properly to help us worship the true God.  What follows from this is, as long as images are used to worship God and focus our prayer, then these images are not idols and do not fall under the commandment against idolatry.  If you swallow Jones' premise that all statues and images are idols, and that God forbids the making of all statues and images because they can only be idols, then Jones can hit you with the punch line: ‘Scripture clearly commands us not to worship idols and create graven images.  Catholicism is trying to hide this fact with their man-made traditions and so-called Church fathers.  Just read Scripture and see how God hates idolatry. Therefore, Catholicism goes against God’s commandments and cannot lead you to salvation.’

Here, God declares that idolaters will not enter heaven. The next verses warns:

"Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience." Ephesians 5:6

Is the Catholic church deceiving you with vain words? You must decide that for yourself.

Origin of this doctrine

Catholicism does not even pretend that this doctrine came from God:

"Following the divinely inspired teaching of our holy Fathers and the tradition of the Catholic Church (for we know that this tradition comes from the Holy Spirit who dwells in her) we rightly define with full certainty and correctness that, like the figure of the precious and life-giving cross, venerable and holy images of our Lord and God and Savior, Jesus Christ, our inviolate Lady, the holy Mother of God, and the venerated angels, all the saints and the just, whether painted or made of mosaic or another suitable material, are to be exhibited in the holy churches of God, on sacred vessels and vestments, walls and panels, in houses and on streets." Pg. 300, #1161

This doctrine came from the "holy Fathers" and "tradition of the Catholic Church." You are expected to believe that these holy Fathers were "divinely inspired" to violate God's Word. Can you accept this?

The psalmist teaches us even more on the subject:

"The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not; They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths. They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them." Psalm 135:15-18

In other words, as an idol is deaf and dumb, so everyone who makes idols or trusts in them is devoid of understanding.

This is a powerful warning from a loving and compassionate God.

Conclusion

The Catholic church contends that idols will "awaken and nourish" your faith in "the mystery of Christ." But God's Word forbids their use. Who will you obey?

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 26:1
"For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men..." Mark 7:8

Ouch!

[Rev. Eric]

God reads the heart and the same physical action that to a human observer seems to be idolatry can be worship of the one true God using an image to reduce distractions. Who can accurately judge the heart, except God? (Mt 7:2; Lk 6:37; James 5:9; Jer 11:20; 1 Cor 4:5; Heb 4:12)

That's a good point, Seeker.  To examine this in a slighly different angle, let me point out that worship is an act of the will.  Even if I may look like I am worshipping a statue of Mary in the eyes of a bystander, I cannot truly be doing such an act unless it is my willful intention.

Now I would like to make a quick point about Jones' book in general.  From his material that has been posted in this forum, all Jones seems to be saying is that certain Catholic practices do not jive with his personal interpretation of the Bible.  And yet he presents his interpretation as the correct one.  Take for example, this statement from initial post in this thread:

The Catholic church contends that idols will "awaken and nourish" your faith in "the mystery of Christ." But God's Word forbids their use. Who will you obey?

First of all, we have to make an alteration to his statement.  To honestly represent Catholic teaching, this should read, "The Catholic Church teaches that sacred images (i.e., not 'idols') will 'awaken and nourish' your faith..."

In light of the Catholic Church's teachings on sacred images, Jones says, "But God's word forbids their use.  Who will you obey?"

Jones seems to believe that his personal intrepretation is unerringly God's own interpretation, and condemns the interpretation of the Catholic Church.  With what authority does he present his material in such a manner?  Who is he to say that his interpretation is the correct one and the Catholic interpretation is wrong?

Someone may say, "Jones' speaks upon the authority of Scripture."  But if that is the case, why does his interpretation of certain Bible passages contradict other Bible passages (as Seeker demonstrated above)?

In light of all this, in all honesty, Jones' challenge to his readers should be:
"The Catholic Church teaches that sacred images will 'awaken and nourish' your faith in 'the mystery of Christ.' But my personal interpretation of certain select passages of God's Word forbids their use. Who will you obey?"
That's an easy one, Mr. Jones.  I will obey what God Himself has revealed through the teachings of His Church, which in no way contradicts Scripture, but only your opinion.

God bless,
-Rev. Eric

[Seeker]

In light of all this, in all honesty, Jones' challenge to his readers should be:
"The Catholic Church teaches that sacred images will 'awaken and nourish' your faith in 'the mystery of Christ.' But my personal interpretation of certain select passages of God's Word forbids their use. Who will you obey?"
That's an easy one, Mr. Jones. I will obey what God Himself has revealed through the teachings of His Church, which in no way contradicts Scripture, but only your opinion.

Very good points Rev Eric.  I think you've gotten to the heart of many of the arguments from Jones' book and other anti-Catholic rhetoric as well.