What is a "Born Again" Catholic?

[trmichels]

Greetings, and may the peace of the Lord be with you,

Although many of my non-Catholic friends consider me a "born again" Catholic, and I considered myself one for years, as I look at it now (with hopefully new-found wisdom) I would have to say that I am not (in the truest definition of the word) a "born again".

If my understanding of "born again" is correct, it refers to a personal acceptance of Jesus as God, Lord and Savior. In many cases this "born again" experience is acompanied by a "laying on of hands" by those of a (Charismatic) prayer group, which often occurs after a Life in the Spirit seminar course in Catholic churches, and the person has a sense of the presence of God. They may feel warm, relieved, happy or peaceful, they may cry tears of joy. They often begin speaking in "tongues".

Now, while this has happened to me, I feel that because I was raised in staunch Catholic family, I always KNEW God was real, the Holy spirit was real, and I believed that Jesus was my personal God, Lord and Savior. Therefore, I was not really "born again" when I made an "announcement" that I wanted Jesus to come into my life. Rather, it was probably more like a "confirmation" of my Christian beliefs. (I strongly suspect this transference of salvation by the Holy Spirit and personal acceptance of Jesus, with the accompanying "laying on of hands" by the Apostles in the early church, is where the sacrament of Confirmation originated.)      

I think the term "born again" has taken on kind of a "special" meaning, and may have (without people knowing it) created kind of an "I'm different/better" attitude in some people. I've seen where non-denominatinals feel that because Catholics don't often use the term "born again" or "saved" that they are not, in fact. "saved", because they have not had a born again experience.  

My contention is that many Catholics, who have been Bapitzed, have had good Christian teachings, and have gone through Confirmation classes, are in fact "saved", because they have basically accepted Jesus as God, Lord and Savior. Although, many of them did not understand the improtance and impact of Confirmation as teenagers, but may come to a realization of it as adults.  

Any comments???

I'd like to hear from the Rev. on Catholic teaching on this subject.

I'd like to hear comments on what you think it takes to be saved, from a Biblical standpoint.

I'd like to hear comments from any Charismatics.


May God bless all of you, and your families.

Your servant in Christ,

T.R.
trmichels@yahoo.com

[Seeker]

Greetings T.R.!

I like your explanation of being "saved".  Personally, I look at it all as growth in Christ and the Spirit.  As a Catholic, I received all the sacraments of initiation at the usual times.  I understood and believed the meaning and effectiveness of it all.  Throughout my life, I have sometimes felt the Spirit emotionally and sometimes not.  I have fallen, remained in sin, and repented to reconcile with God. I have sometimes had my doubts and sometimes not.  Throughout all this, it was only after giving up a certain sin (by the grace of God) that had a hold me and making a real commitment to seek the truth and to follow the Truth that I was able to grow in Christ.  That grace to be free from sin was always available to me, but it took a real denial of the sin and willingness to love God despite myself before I was free of it.  I guess I finally called upon and accepted the graces that were given to me through the sacraments I received.  Maybe I am trying to describe a spiritual maturing process.  I can say that it was in Confession where I physically felt God's saving grace the most.

I understand "saved" to mean saved from sin and eternal life with God.  In this respect I think we're only saved as long as we continue to repent of our sin and have faith and trust in the Lord by which Christ abides in our hearts.  Love goes a long way in keeping us from sin, but we never lose our freedom to choose something other than God.  We are only saved as long as we persevere in Christ's love.  I think you see this theme in Paul's letters.  From what I can gather from Scripture, we are saved by grace through repentance, faith, hope, and love.  Baptism is the beginning of our life in Christ (Mt 24:13; Mk 16:16; Eph 2:5-9; Rom 6:4 and 8:24-25).

This is all just my perspective on things.  I may be using some terms like "saved" loosely.  Please call me on anything that sounds confusing.

I think the term "born again" has taken on kind of a "special" meaning, and may have (without people knowing it) created kind of an "I'm different/better" attitude in some people. I've seen where non-denominatinals feel that because Catholics don't often use the term "born again" or "saved" that they are not, in fact. "saved", because they have not had a born again experience.

I think you're right.  I've seen this personally.  As soon as some non-Catholic Christians find out you're Catholic, they condemn you to hell.  Just saying I'm Catholic means that I cannot possibly be saved.  This attitude seems kind of arrogant and can be off-putting.  Through prayer though, wisdom can be gained by listening to their experience and seeking the truth that can be found in them.  This truth may be partial, but the Spirit "blows where it wills."

God bless!

[trmichels]

Seeker,

You've made some interesting comments. Now, lets take a look at what I wrote in my book Witness: A Christian Hunter's Insights and Outlook, before I began to understand my whole "Catholic" concept of "saved". I think my thoughts (then) are still valid, because they come from the Bible.

A Born Again, Spirit Filled, Charismatic Christian

     Because I profess to be a Christian who is also a Catholic, and Born Again, Spirit Filled and Charismatic, I have had several people, including Christians, ask me what being a "Born Again Christian" or "Spirit Filled Christian" is. Being "Born Again" occurs when a person accepts Jesus Christ as God, and their personal Lord and Savior; along with that they believe that Jesus died on the cross so that all mankind could be forgiven for their sins (provided they believe in God and Jesus), they believe God raised Jesus from the dead, they believe it in their heart, and they actually say it.  (Refer to Rm 10: 9, my favorite verse)
     Many "Born Again" Christians attribute the "Born Again" experience to accepting Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior, and asking to or having the Holy Spirit manifest Himself in their life. Sometimes the person is prayed over by others, sometimes they accept Jesus quietly, on their own. When people are "prayed over" some of them feel extreme peace, relief, love or other emotion. Some people cry tears of joy while they are being prayed over. Some people have a feeling of physical warmth, tingling, or electricity going through their body. These feelings and reactions are attributed to the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit.”
     The presence of the Holy Spirit often manifests itself through the "Gifts of the Spirit" (Charisms), particularly the "Gift of Tongues" (1 Cor. 14: 2-4, 22) giving the person the ability to praise God in "tongues," often an unintelligible sound or language. Sometimes these "tongues" are in fact known languages, although the person has no previous knowledge of the language. Other "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" include Prophecy, Wisdom, Knowledge, Faith, Healing, Miracles, Interpretation of Tongues, and Discernment of Spirits. The expression of these gifts is referred to as being “Charismatic” or "Pentecostal".
     The "Born Again" experience is often the beginning of a change in the individuals life; a commitment to God; a release from drugs, alcohol or other problems. It often leads the person to profess their faith and belief, gives them a strong desire to share their belief, and gives them a desire to bring others to Christ. With that in mind let’s look at what the Bible says about being Saved, Born Again, Spirit Filled, and Charismatic.

What Do You Have To Do To Be Saved?
Jn. 3:5 Jesus himself said, “I tell you in truth, no man can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born again of water and the Spirit.“ Before you can enter heaven you must be born again of water, and of the Holy Spirit.

Rm. 10: 9 “For if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord, and you believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”  It is very clear that, in order to be saved, you must not only be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, you must also be able to say that “Jesus Is Lord” and believe that God raised him from the dead.

How Can You Be Born Again
Mk. 1:10  “And at once, as he (Christ) was coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens torn apart and the Spirit, like a dove, descending on him.” Jesus was the first man to receive the Holy Spirit in this manner. He received it when John baptized him.

Acts 2:33 “Exalted to the right hand of God, He (Christ) has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit, and has poured out what you now see.” Jesus pours out the Holy Spirit on us, and fills us.

Acts 19:2-3 In this verse Paul asks the Ephesians, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? They answered, “No we have not even been told there is a Holy Spirit.” So Paul asked. “Then what baptism did you receive? "John’s baptism, they replied.” John’s baptism was a baptism of water, which is a forgiveness of sins.

Acts 19:4-6 In this verse it states, “Johns baptism was a baptism of repentance; but he insisted that the people believe in the one coming after him - namely Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and the moment Paul had laid hands on them the Holy Spirit came down on them, and they began to speak with tongues and to prophesy.”

Acts 2:4-5 “When the day of Pentecost came they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit enabled them." When you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, you receive the Holy Spirit, and you are born again.

What Does It Mean To Be Born Again?
1 Pt. 1:23 “For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring words of God.”  You are born again, and become imperishable, to live forever, through God’s living and enduring word, and your faith in Jesus.

How Do You Know If You Are Filled With The Holy Spirit?
1 Cor. 12, 3. “... no one can say ‘Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit.” If you can say, “Jesus is Lord” and sincerely mean it, you have done so by the power of the Holy Spirit, and therefore you have been baptized in (filled with) the Holy Spirit. If you can say that, and you believe it in your heart, you have also received the spiritual "Gift of Faith" because the only way you can say Jesus is Lord, and believe it, is because the Holy Spirit has given you faith. You can't physically prove God is real, or prove Jesus died on the cross for your sins, you just believe it, without question, because of the free "Gift of Faith" given to you by the grace of God.    
 
What Happens To You After You Receive The Holy Spirit
Tt. 3, 4 - 5 “But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.” When you are baptized in the Holy Spirit you are reborn and renewed. You are also justified by God’s grace, so that you become and heir of God, and have the hope of eternal life. 

Acts 19, 6 “When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them and they spoke in tongues and prophesied." The gift of tongues is often the first charism (spiritual gift) to manifest itself after a person has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is a tangible sign that the person has been filled with the Holy Spirit. Before you can outpour with the "Gifts of the Spirit" you must be filled with the Holy Spirit. Jesus was able to outpour his "Gifts" only after he received the Holy Spirit.
 
Charismatic
1 Cor. 12, 7-11 “Now to each one the manifestation of the Sprit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different tongues, and to still another the interpretations of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.” When a person is charismatic in the spiritual sense, they are able to use the gifts that the Holy Spirit has bestowed on them. These gifts are wisdom (good judgement, good counsel), knowledge (knowing things you wouldn't normally know), faith (believing strongly in God and what He is able to do in our lives), miracles (the ability to perform God related supernatural acts), prophecy (speaking with the knowledge of God, often speaking as God), discernment (being able to distinguish between God and evil spirits), speaking in tongues (spoken words of wisdom, knowledge or prophecy in a language unknown to the speaker) and interpretation of tongues (the ability to understand another person's unknown tongue).  

Mk. 16, 17  “And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will place their hands on sick people and they will get well.” It does not say that God will do these things (use the Charismatic gifts), but rather that those who believe in God will do these things. But, we do them through our belief in God, and by the power of the Holy Spirit.

A Child Of God
Mt. 18, 3 “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.” The best way to believe in God is to be as humble and trustworthy as a child is. Children will do almost anything to learn, and they often accept what they have been told without question

Mt. 3, 6 “Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in thee Jordan River.” When you accept Jesus as your Savior, you should confess your sins, ask forgiveness for them, and ask to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. Once you believe in, and proclaim, that Jesus Is Lord; and believe in your heart that Christ died on the cross for your sins; you receive the same baptism as Jesus, the “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” and you are “Born Again” and “Saved.” When you accept Christ as your Lord and savior you will receive God’s grace; which will give you the trust, patience and love of God that will make your entire life peaceful, and a joy to God and those around you.

There is no question that my "confirmation" of my personal "acceptance" of Jesus as God, Lord and savior, and asking the Holy Spirit to manifest his presence more in my life (what many non-denominationals, Pentecostals and Charismatics refer to as a "born again" experience) has taken me places as a Christian I might never have gone had I not taken that step. In other words; it has made a big difference in my life. It has been really good for me.
   
Good questions might be, "Should non-Charismatic Catholics look for more than they have? Should they be satisifed with the "Catholic" doctrine/belief on acceptance into Heaven (being "Baptized and Confirmed to be saved), or should they seek a personal knowing/understanding of what Confirmation should be?


Just thoughts to ponder!

T.R.

[Seeker]

Good questions might be, "Should non-Charismatic Catholics look for more than they have? Should they be satisifed with the "Catholic" doctrine/belief on acceptance into Heaven (being "Baptized and Confirmed to be saved), or should they seek a personal knowing/understanding of what Confirmation should be?

I think we should always seek the Spirit.  IMHO, without desire for the Spirit and growth, we become easier prey for Satan and the world.  I don't think we should rest on Baptism and Confirmation and sit stagnant.  I think the Catholic belief on Baptism and Confirmation supports this concept.  With reception of these sacraments comes the responsibility to respond to them and grow in the Spirit.  That's why we renew our Baptismal vows every year.  

I look at the Spirit within us as something that either grows or diminishes, it is living and thus does not remain stagnant.  I believe we receive many graces in the Sacraments, but how effective they are depends on our response to those graces.  God is constantly reaching out to us.  We must answer that invitation.

I would add a big YES to your last question.  We all should "seek a personal knowing/understanding of what Confirmation should be."

Great list of Scriptural references by the way.  They really bring it all together.

[tklein1014]

Just to add to what's already been said from a convert's perspective...

For your reference, you can read my testimony...

In my experience, I believe I was "saved" when I had the dream & woke up wanting to read the Bible more, etc.  It seems like at that point, Jesus caught my attention more than He ever had before & called me back, "saving" me from my sin & despair.  I think the Catechumenate process & ultimately the sacraments at the Easter Vigil all together were the "born again" experience, for me, that "born again" Christians typically refer to - acceptance & confirmation.  In that sense, it seems possible for one to be "saved" but not "born again", since Jesus can call one back to the flock, but one has to respond to be "born again".  I think Seeker is absolutely right that one has to follow through with one's Baptismal & Confirmation vows in order to be "saved", "born again", etc.  It's what's in the heart that counts, and if one's heart isn't in it/doesn't believe it, then outside prayers/gestures/rituals/etc. might make one feel good, but are meaningless without conviction & belief within.

HTH

Tina