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Author Topic: Indulgences  (Read 1402 times)
Ayodhya Nath Bhat
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« on: January 05, 2004, 09:55:29 AM »

Shocked    Indulgences

Through indulgences, the sins of Roman Catholics, both those who are alive and those in Purgatory, can supposedly be forgiven:

Through indulgences the faithful can obtain the remission of temporal punishment resulting from sin for themselves and also for the souls in Purgatory."

Here is the Catechism's definition of an indulgence:
"An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints."

Here, the water gets deep. Space does not permit a full explanation of indulgences. Suffice it to say that they are a complicated system of good works. It should also be mentioned that every rule regarding indulgences is a tradition of men. Not one can be found in God's Word.

Categories of sins?
"To understand this doctrine (Indulgences) and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence."
But the Bible consistently reveals that all sin has the same consequence:
"For the wages of sin is death..." Romans 6:23
"Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." James 1:15

The final result of sin is always death, no matter how minor we may think a particular sin is. Catholics try to pay for sins through indulgences, but Christ already paid for every sin:
"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;" 1 Corinthians 15:3
While it is true that God does want His children to perform good works, those works are not a requirement for salvation, they are a result of salvation. Paul teaches:
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:8, 10
Once one is saved by grace, good works should follow. But good works are never a requirement for salvation. Neither are they a requirement for forgiveness of sins after salvation.
The New Testament bulges with examples of Jesus forgiving sins, but He never demanded good works as a condition of forgiveness.

Can the living help the dead?
Catholicism also purports that indulgences help those who have already died:
"Since the faithful departed now being purified are also members of the same communion of saints, one way we can help them is to obtain indulgences for them, so that the temporal punishments due for their sins may be remitted."

Here is another load of man-made traditions. You will never find any of this taught in the Word of God. As we have mentioned previously, the time to have your sins remitted is while you are still alive.

Three themes
In this doctrine, three recurring themes come to the surface again:

1. Another divine attribute of Jesus is minimized. The Bible declares that only Christ's work can bring about the forgiveness of sins. Catholicism, though, claims that sins can be forgiven through the good works of any ordinary Catholic.

2. Indulgences keep people in bondage to the Catholic church. Rather than going to God for forgiveness, Catholics must toil and strive, performing good deeds through the Catholic church for forgiveness of their sins.
It is noteworthy to ponder that the "good works" of Catholicism differ from the good works of the Bible. Biblical good works are deeds done for other people, while Catholicism' s good works revolve primarily around performing rituals of the church (Masses, saying rosaries, Catholic prayers, lighting candles, etc.). God intended good works to benefit others, not to bring people into bondage to a church.

3. Indulgences are a form of spiritual blackmail, forcing members to remain faithful to the church, so they can someday help their loved ones reach heaven.

Conclusion

Is this system of good works from God? Read what God records in His Holy Word on the subject, then decide for yourself:

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us..." Titus 3:5

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"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"   Gal. 4:16
Melody
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2004, 03:01:04 AM »

During the Protestant Reformation there was lots of abuse in the Catholic Church wrt indulgences. However, the pious use of indulgences dates back into the early days of the Church, and the principles underlying indulgences extend back into the Bible itself. Christians (& even Catholics) who are uncomfortable with indulgences do not realize how biblical they are. The principles behind indulgences are as clear in Scripture as those behind more familiar doctrines, such as the Trinity.

Catholic.com, which has an excellent library of Catholic Answers, gives us these basic points:
Principle 1: Sin Results in Guilt and Punishment.
Principle 2: Punishments are Both Temporal and Eternal.
Principle 3: Temporal Penalties May Remain When a Sin is forgiven.
Principle 4: God Blesses Some People As a Reward to Others.
Principle 5: God Remits Temporal Punishments through the Church.
Principle 6: God Blesses Dead Christians As a Reward to Living Christians.

(An in-depth study of the above points, showing Biblical basis, can be made  here[/url].)

To answer you about the three themes which you felt came to light through this doctrine:

Quote
1. Another divine attribute of Jesus is minimized. The Bible declares that only Christ's work can bring about the forgiveness of sins. Catholicism, though, claims that sins can be forgiven through the good works of any ordinary Catholic

No one wants to minimize Jesus’ work. His Work is forgiveness, which we require. Indulgences are not about forgiving sins, it’s about eliminating temporal penalties (see Principle 3). Acknowledge that if you steal someone’s car, you have to give it back; it isn’t enough just to repent. God’s forgiveness (and man’s!) does not include letting you keep the stolen car.

As per the def. which you supplied from the Catechism “"An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven” – Hence we see the indulgences are not about forgiving sins (which can be done only through Jesus during the Sacrament of Reconciliation.)

Quote
Rather than going to God for forgiveness, Catholics must toil and strive, performing good deeds through the Catholic church for forgiveness of their sins.
Indulgences are not given higher place in the Catholic Church than the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession), which is a system of going to God for forgiveness after repentance (leave alone whether you believe we should go directly to God or through a priest).


Quote
Indulgences are a form of spiritual blackmail
What can I say about this? It would I guess seem like that if you do not understand the Catholic point of view. But assuming you’ve read the links I gave above, hopefully you should not feel that way anymore. Rest assured the Catholic Church does not condone much less indulge in blackmail, spiritual or otherwise.

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Blessings,
Melody
« Last Edit: January 16, 2004, 03:02:06 AM by Melody » Logged

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DavidFilmer
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« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2004, 03:19:30 AM »

If Ayodhya plans to cut-and-paste the works of others, the least he could do is attribute it. Ayodhya plagerized this content from the book "Understanding Roman Catholicism," copyright 1995 by Rick Jones, which is posted (with permission and attrition) on Jack Chick's website (Jack Chick is a professional anti-Catholic):

http://www.chick.com/reading/books/160/160%5F29.asp
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In religion, What damned error, but some sober brow Will bless it and approve it with a text
- Bassanio, "The Merchant of Venice" (by William Shakespeare),  Act III Scene II .
Ayodhya Nath Bhat
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2004, 01:19:53 PM »

Thanks David for bringing this to my notice.I like to invite views of jesusandyou on this topic.

Love kiss

Ayodhya
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"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"   Gal. 4:16
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