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Author Topic: Death & Resurrection  (Read 1694 times)
Richard Mascarenhas
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« on: March 29, 2005, 08:53:13 AM »

Mat 12:40 says " For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth"

If your read
Mat27:46 "About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi,[a] lama sabachthani?”–which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”  Thats on Good Friday.......?

and Mat 28 1-5 (this is Sunday before dawn?)
"1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and
  the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from  
   heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.
3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.
4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.
5 The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking
   for Jesus, who was crucified. 6He is not here; he has risen, just as he said".

How does this add up to 3 days and 3 nights in the hearth of the earth....

When Jesus said 3 days and 3 nights it must be 3 days and 3 nights.....

Can this be explained please

Richard Mascarenhas
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Rev. Eric
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2005, 07:38:36 PM »

Greetings Richard
(and hello to the other community members - it's been awhile since I posted here),

Jesus' usage of "three days and three nights" corresponds with the phraseology of the ancient world in telling time.  In  modern language we would say instead, "three calender days", but it meant the same thing.  The ancient term did not have to literally encompass three nights.  For example, if I lived in the time of Jesus and spent two and a half days visiting Jerusalem, I could say that I was there "three days and three nights", even though technically I was only there two nights.

Furthermore, according to the way the Jews told time, a partial day was still counted as a complete day.  Jesus was in the tomb on Good Friday and remained there all of Saturday and then for some of Sunday.  This counted as three days.

The important thing was for Jesus to be raised on the third day to fulfill the Scriptures.  As a matter-of-fact, Matthew felt that it was very important to show that Jesus fulfilled the Scriptures.  The fact that he wrote what Jesus said about the "three days and three nights" but offered no explanation about the apparent discrepancy demonstrates that he did not think that Jesus literally meant three nights.  Like I said, Jesus simply meant three calender days in the expression of the time.

God bless,
-Rev. Eric
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Richard Mascarenhas
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2005, 10:48:27 PM »

Greetings Rev. Eric.

Thanks for the reply.  "Jesus specifically says three days and three nights and just as Jonah so will he be. If it was said as only three days, it could be taken the way u explained.  If what is said is really not meant it to be then how did the people of that time understand?  Its so confusing.....  How will the people say if it was meant exactly 3 days and 3 nights.  

In another instance when Jesus said "Destroy this temple and in three days i will build it"  is more clear in the sense that in three days..... neednt be three days and three nights. So.........?

Sorry for dragging on.... but the mind needs more to feel good......

Thanks
Richard
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« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2005, 02:17:47 AM »

Hi Richard,

Very good questions!

And welcome back Rev Eric!  Great to see you posting again.

Just want to offer more supporting evidence for what Rev Eric already said:

Three days and three nights is not necessarily a literal three days and three nights as we think of it today, nor is it necessarily three 24 hour periods.  Biblically speaking, three days and three nights don't have to mean three full days and three full nights.  “Three days and three nights” may simply mean three days in popular speech for the time and culture.

For example, the same Greek expression is found in 1 Samuel 30:12 in the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint) as in Matthew 12:40. The following verse, 1 Samuel 30:13 refers to the three-day and three-night period mentioned in verse 12 as “three days ago” or, as the Septuagint Old Testament literally states, “the third day today” (also see Stephen Ray link below).  This is a specific case where the same time period is described both as "three days and three nights" and as "the third day today. "

Quote
1Sa 30:11  And they found an Egyptian in the field, and brought him to David: and they gave him bread to eat, and water to drink,
1Sa 30:12  As also a piece of a cake of figs, and two bunches of raisins. And when he had eaten them, his spirit returned, and he was refreshed: for he had not eaten bread, nor drunk water, three days and three nights.
1Sa 30:13  And David said to him: To whom dost thou belong; or whence dost thou come? and whither art thou going? He said: I am a young man of Egypt, the servant of an Amalecite: and my master left me, because I began to be sick three days ago

Also compare the verses of Esther 4:16 and Esther 5:1.

In addition, elsewhere in his Gospel, Matthew repeatedly alludes to the day of the Resurrection as the "third day" or "after three days" (Mt 16:21, Mt 17:23, Mt 20:19, Mt 26:61, Mt 27:40, Mt 27:63-64).  The ancient Jews counted part of a day as a full day in such terminology. Matthew seems to be using the terms "three days and three nights" intechangeably with "the third day." For the ancient Jews, the third day from Friday is Sunday.

Here are what some of the Church Fathers say:

St. Augustine., De Cons., Ev., iii, 24: Some, not knowing the Scripture manner of speaking, would interpret as one night those three hours of darkness when the sun was darkened from the sixth to the ninth hour; and as a day in like manner these other three hours in which it was again restored to the world, from the ninth hour till sunset. Then follows the night preceding the sabbath, which if we reckon with its own day we shall have thus two days and two nights. Then after the sabbath follows the night of the sabbath prime, that is of the dawning of the Lord's day on which the Lord arose. Thus we shall only get two nights and two days, with this one night to be added if we might understand the whole of it, and it could not be shewn that that dawn was indeed the latter part of the night.  So that not even by taking in those six hours, three of darkness, and three of restored light, can we establish the computation of three days and three nights. It remains therefore that we find the explanation in that usual manner of Scripture of putting a part for the whole.

St. Augustine., De Trin., iv. 6: For that the three days were not three full and entire days, Scripture witnesses; the first day is reckoned because the latter end of it comes in; and the third day is likewise reckoned, because the first part of it is included; while the day between, that is the second day, appears in all its twenty-four hours, twelve of the night and twelve of the day. For the succeeding night up to the dawn when the Lord's resurrection was made known, belongs to the third day. For as the first days of creation were, because of man's coming fall, computed from morning to night; so these days are because of man's restoration computed from night to morning.

St. Jerome: Not that He remained three whole days and three nights in hell, but that this be understood to imply a part of the preparation day, and of the Lord's day, and the whole sabbath day.

St John Chrysostom.: He said not openly that He should rise again, because they would have derided him, but hints it distantly that even they might believe that He foreknew it. He said not in the earth, but in the heart of the earth, therein declaring His tomb, and that none might suspect that there was only the semblance of death. Therefore also He spake of three days, that it should be believed that He was dead.  But the sign itself proves the truth of it; for Jonas was in the whale's belly not in figure but in deed; and surely the sign did not happen in very deed, if the thing signified happened only in figure. Wherefore it is manifest that they are children of the Devil who follow  Marcion asserting that the passion of Christ was only a phantasy. And that He should suffer for them also, though they would not profit by it, is shewn by that which He speaks, that to this generation should be given the sign of Jonas the Prophet.

Here is another Catholic perspective from apologist Stephen Ray:

Explanation by Stephen Ray

There are many non-traditional theories which put Good Friday either at Wednesday or Thursday and the Resurrection either on Saturday evening or Sunday morning, depending on what the author wants to "prove."  These are relatively recent theories in Christianity, however.  

Protestant scholars agree that "three days and three nights" means "on the third day."  For example, John Wesley's commentary on Mt 12:40 states:
Quote
Three days and three nights - It was customary with the eastern nations to reckon any part of a natural day of twenty-four hours, for the whole day. Accordingly they used to say a thing was done after three or seven days, if it was done on the third or seventh day, from that which was last mentioned. Instances of this may be seen, 1Ki 20:29; and in many other places. And as the Hebrews had no word to express a natural day, they used night and day, or day and night for it. So that to say a thing happened after three days and three nights, was with them the very same, as to say, it happened after three days, or on the third day.

We also need to keep in mind that we're reading a translation of a text written primarily for Hebrews with some phrases translated literally.  These literal translations don't carry the full meaning that the same phrase would have for the audience it was meant for.

For example, if the phrase "I'll be there in a minute" were translated in another language, the reader might believe I meant 60 seconds exactly and would be surprised to learn that I could mean 5 minutes or so.  But someone familiar with popular English expressions would understand I meant anywhere from 1 minute to 10 minutes.  

You also asked:
Quote
Its so confusing..... How will the people say if it was meant exactly 3 days and 3 nights.

I agree about the confusion. I think this is a very good question.  Not being a Bible scholar, I don't really know the answer to that, but as a guess I'd say that there are two possibilities:

1.  There would have to be more information provided to indicate the speaker meant exactly three 12 hour days and three 12 hour nights.  The context would be helpful.  In Matthew's Gospel we have indications that Jesus DID NOT mean a literal 72 hour period and that Matthew did not take it to be.  The main evidence for this is that the Resurrection did not occur after a 72 hour period, but on "the third day."

2.  The speaker might add the word "exactly" (or some other qualifier) to the phrase three days and three nights.

In the "I'll be there in a minute" example in English, to indicate I meant exactly one minute I would probably say "in 60 seconds," or add the words "exactly, no more and no less" to the phrase.

I hope I'm making sense and not complicating things unnecessarily.  Perhaps Rev Eric could follow up and clear things up better.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2005, 10:04:03 AM by Seeker » Logged

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Melody
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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2005, 03:54:37 PM »

Dear Richard,

I believe that Rev. Eric & Seeker have done a good job at explaining the passage you talked about.

Perhaps the reason why you are still not satisfied is because you feel that the passage should be interpreted literally (you say again "When Jesus said 3 days and 3 nights it must be 3 days and 3 nights")


Before I continue, I'd like you to read these principles given by Pope Pius XII and the CCC on how to read the Bible(C 109-110):

(01) We should use the contextual approach to discover meaning of any passage, the meaning intended by the author

(02) We must be attentive to the content and unity of the whole Bible... i.e.interpret a given passage in light of other passages that relate to it.

(03) We must be aware that there is a unity and consistency in the truths God has revealed to us...i.e. we cannot look only at certain parts & ignore others.

(04) Colorful expressions should not be taken at face value.

and lastly

(05) The Old Testament should be interpreted in the light of Jesus Christ and of the New Testament.


Let's take the above points & relate them to your question:

(01) Contextually, Rev Eric has explained how the "phraseology of the ancient world" mean nothing but what we would refer to as three calendar days. Also remember, if the phrase "after three days," was not interchangeable with the "third day," the Pharisees would have asked for a guard for the fourth day.

(02) In terms of Content & Unity, Seeker has explained this very well when he said:

Quote
In addition, elsewhere in his Gospel, Matthew repeatedly alludes to the day of the Resurrection as the "third day" or "after three days" (Mt 16:21, Mt 17:23, Mt 20:19, Mt 26:61, Mt 27:40, Mt 27:63-64). The ancient Jews counted part of a day as a full day in such terminology. Matthew seems to be using the terms "three days and three nights" intechangeably with "the third day." For the ancient Jews, the third day from Friday is Sunday. 

(03) I don't really think this point relates to your question, so will leave it out.

(04) But here's something that definetely does- Colorful Expressions! Since you feel so led to doing exactly what Jesus said... would you tear your eye out & throw it away if it caused you to sin?? ("If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out & throw it away" Mt. 5:59). The human part of Jesus was a product of the time He lived in, speaking the language of the time & place, which would include the expressions of the time.

Seeker's example of "I'll be there in a minute" falls under this point.

(05) And finally, Rather than talk about Jesus in light of Jonah, let's talk about Jonah of the OT in light with Jesus of the NT

I quote below from Authors: Henry Morris and Martin Clark , from their book The Bible Has the Answer, pp. 74-76, published by Master Books, 1987. (Just as a disclaimer, I'll add that the authors are Christian & not Catholic & everything they write is not in keeping with Catholic teachings. This part is though.)

Quote
HOW DID JONAH SURVIVE?

As to whether a man could survive "three days and three nights" under such conditions, there are three possible answers that could be suggested in defense of the Biblical narrative.

   1. NATURAL. In the first place, it has been well established that the phrase "three days and three nights" in ancient Hebrew usage was an idiomatic expression meaning simply "three days," and was applicable even if the beginning and ending days of the period were only partial days. Thus it could refer to a period as short as about 38 hours. There is always some air in the whale's stomach, and, as long as the animal it has swallowed is still alive, digestive activity will not begin. Thus, Jonah's experience could possibly have happened entirely with the framework of natural law.

   2. MIRACLE. It is much more likely, however, that the event involved a divine miracle, as the Scripture strongly implies. The "great fish" was prepared and sent by God, as was the intense storm that threatened the ship on which Jonah was traveling. The storm ceased as soon as Jonah was cast overboard (Jonah 1:4, 15). In like manner, it was quite probable that God preserved Jonah's life miraculously all through the horrifying experience.

   3. RESURRECTION. A third possibility is that Jonah actually suffocated and died in the great fish and then God later brought him back from the dead. There are at least eight other such "resurrections" recorded in the Bible, as well as the glorious bodily resurrection of Christ -- of which Jonah's experience in particular was said by Christ to be a prophetic sign.

This is also implied by Jonah's prayer, when he said: "...out of the belly of hell (i.e. "sheol," the place of departed spirits) cried I, and thou heardest my voice" (Jonah 2:2). In any case, it was a mighty experience, evidently well known and certified in his day, probably contributing in significant degree to the fact that all people of Ninevah repented and turned to God (Jonah 3:5) when Jonah returned "from the dead," as it were, to preach to them.


Hope all this helps!

Blessings,

Melody
« Last Edit: April 15, 2005, 03:57:27 PM by Melody » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2006, 01:15:40 AM »

I was gonna post my thoughts, but whats the use? You guys have it COVERED.

But, I can see where anyone, especially one who does not have access to a Concordance etc. to help them understand ancient Hebrew sayings, terms, idioms, meanings phrase-ology etc., can and will have a hard time INTERPRETING the Bible. It is one of the things we students and teachers alike have to research, nad research and research.

One of the things we MUST learn is that we probably cannot take the stroy of Jonah literally, it may be what is considered as a "Beast Fable". Which means it is a fable.

Although Yahweh divinely inspired the writers of the Bible to write what they wrote, many times he allowed them to use their own thoughts and their own literary style to get a particular point, theme or teaching across to the readers, which was originally the ancient Hebrews. 


God bless all,

T.R.   
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2006, 12:23:09 PM »

Good to see you posting again TR.  I pray all is well with you and your family.
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-If you continue in my word... you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free. Jn 8:31-32
-For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds... Mt 7:8; Lk 11:10
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