Are Some Roman Catholics Saved?

[Ayodhya Nath Bhat]

Are Some Roman Catholics Saved?

"Do you believe that there are some Roman Catholics that are saved?" is a question often asked of us. "Surely, there should be some Roman Catholics that are saved. They are so sincere!"

Even Bible-believing Christians tend to think the Roman Catholics are saved due to sincerity or to their good works. But what does the Bible say? "Except a man be born again, he CANNOT see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

Indeed there are many Roman Catholics who, in spite of their beliefs, looks past it all and reach out by faith to the living Saviour. Oh yes, such accept Christ as their personal Saviour, are born again and leave the old life behind. Such we call "converted former Roman Catholics."

But the question here is are there any saved Roman Catholics? That is, being a saved person and remaining in Roman Catholicism.

Just as you cannot mix fire and water, neither can one be a saved person and remain a faithful Roman Catholic. What is more, this would be directly against the official teaching of Rome: One who would dare to consider himself, or herself, saved (that is, certain of heaven), being a devout Roman Catholic commits one of the gravest sins--the sin of presumption.

Sincerity is good. And if sincerity alone could save a person, the monks and nuns would be first to reach heaven. But sincerity is not good enough. God says: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."

Roman Catholics know about Christ, but do not know Him personally, therefore they are trying to work their way to Him. Roman Catholicism is essentially a religion of works and not of grace as taught in the Scriptures.

Merits are earned, or even purchased with money, yet the assurance and joy of salvation are ever absent no matter how much satisfaction may be derived from sincere worship, conscientious living, or laudable good works.

Though the cross and the death of Christ are emphasized, the saving truths of Redemption are not taught. Or they are so mixed with penance, purgatory, ritual, mass, and with idol and saint worship, that faith unto salvation is completely obscure.

Truly, many Roman Catholics, in spite of it all, have accepted Christ into their hearts, their lives--but can they then, being saved, still continue to be Roman Catholics?

If they did, they would still have to attend Mass. Mass is "the unbloody sacrifice of Christ under the appearance of bread and wine." And how can they repeat Calvary when the Bible says: "For this He did once" (Hebrews 7:27).

"He entered in once" (Hebrews 9:11-15). "Christ was once offered" (Hebrews 9:28). "The offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10). "For by one offering" (Hebrews 10:14).

They would have to continue going to confession to a priest when the Bible says: "Who can forgive sins but God only?" (Mark 2:7). "Without shedding of blood there is no remission" (Hebrews 9:22). "And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous" (I John 2:1-2).

They would have to continue praying to the saints when the Bible definitely states: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (I Timothy 2:5).

Then remaining in Roman Catholicism, they must believe that after death there is a place called "purgatory." How could this tally with the fact of being saved? The Bible says: "The blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from ALL sin" (I John 1:7).

Some tell us that they have met some pretty good Roman Catholics who talk all about Jesus and seemed to trust Him. But then again, if they trust Jesus alone for salvation (and there is no other way), then why mass, confession, beads, statues, crucifixes, etc., etc.?

Either one knows he is saved, or does not know he is saved. There is no slightly saved as there is no slightly pregnant.What Roman Catholics really are talking about is the wafer being their "Christ" (Matthew 24:23).

The Roman Catholics are as lost as the poor African or Hindu. The only difference is that the Roman Catholics are right about us and we do not see the need of evangelizing them.

We urge you to pray for the Roman Catholics and to witness to them as never before. They are lost and need a living Saviour, not one dead on the cross.

Those who insist that there are saved Roman Catholics either do not know that Bible or do not know Roman Catholicism.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Melody]

Dear Ayodhya,

I hope you posted this article here only to invite discussion & that it does not reflect how you feel, especially after having read all our other threads. I can (& will, if you want me to) show you a step-by-step account why this article just is NOT correct!

But till then, I feel it sufficient to say: I am a Roman Catholic. I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins & that by His blood I have attained Salvation, through no other Name but by His name, Jesus. This is my assurity - I am saved!

Am I though the only Roman Catholic who believes what I do? Surely there must be at least a FEW others like me? Are we all not Roman Catholics who are saved?

So now you tell me - is it not enough to have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved? And if it is, are those Roman Catholics who have faith not saved?

I know they are!

Blessings,

Melody

[secretman]

Once Saved Always Saved?

Peter and Paul Ministries

How many times have Catholics been asked by a Protestant: Are you saved? This question is quite simple to answer if one has taken the time to learn what the Bible teaches. Salvation is a free gift given by the grace of God, but because of our freewill we can turn our backs on His gift by committing mortal sin. Everyone like it or not is responsible for their actions and will answer for them on the day of judgment. "All of us have a scrutiny to undergo before Christ's judgement-seat, for each to reap what his mortal life has earned, good or ill, according to his deeds" (2 Cor 5:10)

If one thinks about it, Protestants actually have the audacity to play God and proclaim themselves saved, once they have accepted Jesus as "their personal Lord and Savior." What they don’t understand is that there twisted notion of judgment and salvation is in direct conflict with the Word of God. "I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purpose of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God" (1 Cor 4:4-5)

Catholics confronted with the question, are you saved?, should answer by saying, "I am redeemed by the Blood of Christ, I trust in Him alone for my salvation, and as the Bible teaches in (Phil 2:12 ), "I am a working out my salvation in fear and trembling."

“it is clear that Jesus and the Church are the same thing: indissoluble, inseparable. Christ and the Church are only one thing. It is not possible to say: 'I believe in Jesus, I accept Jesus, but I do not accept the Church.” Pope John Paul I in a General Audience on September 13, 1978


Biblical Evidence: One Can Lose Their Salvation:
"but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified." (1 Cor. 9:27)

"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them." (2 Peter 2:20-21)

"Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor. 6:9-10)

"but he who endures to the end will be saved."Mt 10:22)

"Take care, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart leading you to fall away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “today,” so that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin . For we share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first." (Heb 3: 12-14)

"Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity to those who have fallen, but kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you too will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again."(Rom 11:22-23)

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that does the will of the Father who is heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 7:21)

Who Will Be Saved?

Peter and Paul Ministries

"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy,
that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is
narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few." (Matt 7:13 -14)
Those who die in perfect communion with Christ through the sanctifying grace of His sacraments will be given the bliss of seeing God in the face, the beatific vision. People that pass on in a state of grace, but still have temporal punishment to atone for will enter heaven only after they have been cleansed in the fires of purgatory. The people who sincerely searched for God and tried to lived a life in accordance to His’ law written upon their hearts but through no fault of their own never heard the Gospel or had the opportunity to formally enter the Church may be lead into communion with the Mystical Body of Christ, the Roman Catholic Church, by the miraculous intervention of God. "He that has my commandments and observers them is the one who loves me. And whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will manifest myself to him."(Jn14:21) All Catholics must never forget that it would be a miracle for any invincible ignorant soul to be saved, because it is impossible to keep the whole moral law without Christ’s grace bestowed through His sacraments. Therefore the conversion of the world to Jesus and His Church is paramount so all will have a true hope of salvation. Lastly, those who live an unrepentant life of sin and debauchery and the prideful who choose by their own freewill to reject either Christ or His Mystical Body and sole ark of salvation, the Catholic Church, will not like where they end up."If anyone remains not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up, and cast him into the fire, and burned." (Jn 15: 6)


"Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom
of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards,
nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor. 6:9-10)


No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church

Peter and Paul Ministries

Vatican II "For it is only through Christ’s Catholic Church, which is “the all embracing means of salvation,” that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation." Unitatis Redintegratio 3

Vatican II"Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved." Lumen Gentium 14

Vatican II"This missionary activity derives its reason from the will of God, "who wishes all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, Himself a man, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:4-5), "neither is there salvation in any other" (Acts 4:12). Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism, and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself, "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door." Ad Gentes 7


Pope Pelagius II (A.D. 578 - 590): "Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord. ...Although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or, thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be (for them) that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness. ...Such a one can be slain, he cannot be crowned. ...[If] slain outside the Church, he cannot attain the rewards of the Church." (Denzinger 246-247)

Pope Saint Gregory the Great (A.D. 590 - 604): "Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved." (Moralia)

Pope Innocent III (A.D. 1198 - 1216): "With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved." (Denzinger 423)

Pope Leo XII (A.D. 1823 - 1829): "We profess that there is no salvation outside the Church. ...For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: `If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.'" (Encyclical, Ubi Primum)

Pope Gregory XVI (A.D. 1831 - 1846): "It is not possible to worship God truly except in Her; all who are outside Her will not be saved." (Encyclical, Summo Jugiter)

Pope Pius IX (A.D. 1846 - 1878): "It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood." (Denzinger 1647)

Pope Leo XIII (A.D. 1878 - 1903): "This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church." (Encyclical, Annum Ingressi Sumus)

"He scatters and gathers not who gathers not with the Church and with Jesus Christ, and all who fight not jointly with Him and with the Church are in very truth contending against God." (Encyclical, Sapientiae Christianae)

Pope Saint Pius X (A.D. 1903 - 1914): "It is our duty to recall to everyone great and small, as the Holy Pontiff Gregory did in ages past, the absolute necessity which is ours, to have recourse to this Church to effect our eternal salvation." (Encyclical, Jucunda Sane)

Pope Benedict XV (A.D. 1914 - 1922): "Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved." (Encyclical, Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum)

Pope Pius XI (A.D. 1922 - 1939): "The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. ...Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ, no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors." (Encyclical, Mortalium Animos)

Pope Pius XII (A.D. 1939 - 1958): "By divine mandate the interpreter and guardian of the Scriptures, and the depository of Sacred Tradition living within her, the Church alone is the entrance to salvation: She alone, by herself, and under the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, is the source of truth." (Allocution to the Gregorian, October 17, 1953)

Then, as though to set this constant teaching of the Fathers, Doctors and Popes "in concrete," so to speak, we have the following definitions from the Solemn Magisterium of the Church:

Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215): "One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful outside which no one at all is saved..."

Pope Boniface VIII in his Papal Bull Unam Sanctam (A.D. 1302): "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence (A.D. 1438 - 1445): "[The most Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart `into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."

Thanks! And God Bless U All!

[Rev. Eric]

Greetings Ayodhya,

Why are you simply downloading a bunch of anti-Catholic material from other websites?  This lastest post of your's was written by Rev. H. Gregory Adams (I found it at http://associate.com/ministry_files/The_Re...ics_Saved.shtml )

Futhermore, I have recently discovered that your posts "Christ’s Liberty or Bondage?", "God's Plea", and "Degrees of Sin, Mortal or Venial" are all from Understanding Roman Catholicism by Rick Jones, as these links demonstrate:
http://www.russpickett.com/apolog/catap4.htm
http://www.russpickett.com/apolog/catap3.htm
http://www.chick.com/reading/books/160/160_11.asp

These are the only topics that I have taken time to check, but I imagine that it is the same with most of your other material.  Furthermore, you have consistently refused to engage any of the Catholics on this board in a dialogue on this material.  All you seem to be doing is posting other people's writings (without crediting them) to see what our reactions are.  I am wondering what the point is to all this.

In any event, please remember that the material you have been posting has been copywritten.  Melody has addressed proper citation procedures in her post "Very Imp".

Finally, in many of your past topics I have asked you a number of questions but you have not answered them.  These were not rhetorical questions - so please give me your honest responses to them.

To the Catholics of Glorify God Community:
Congratulations on your various responses to the material that Ayodhya has posted over the past few weeks.  After all, as it turns out, you have refuted the positions of published professional anti-Catholics.  Good job!

God bless,
-Rev. Eric

[DavidFilmer]

Good work, RevEric, at identifying this problem. I did some further research and discovered that, without exception, every single one of Ayodhya's apologetical posts have been plagerized from other sources, mostly  from Rick Jones book, "Understanding Roman Catholicism," or Thomas F. Heinze's "Answers to my Catholic Friends."

Every posting that Ayodhya has made is found on Jack Chick's website (Jack Chick runs an anti-Catholic publishing house). This includes this particular posting,written by H. Gregory Adams, which can be found on Chick's website at:

http://www.chick.com/bc/1986/arecatholicssaved.asp

This particular posting was one of two articles that Ayodhya plagerized from Jack Chick's own magazine, "Battle Cry, " which carries content by numerous anti-Catholic authors. FWIW, the tag-line of this Chick magazine is, "Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?"

In posting this content, Ayodhya has been acting in violation of US copyright laws (all of these works are copyright by the authors), and he has exposed this site to takedown action (the same type of thing that shut Napster down, and (literally) thousands of other sites.

I have located and added copyright citations to all Ayodhya's posts (which ought to protect the site, legally speaking).

As RevEric has said, everyone has done a great job refuting the works of professional anti-Catholic authors. Maybe these responses should be gathered together and form the basis of a chapter-by-chapter refutation of these anti-Catholic works???

[Melody]

Maybe these responses should be gathered together and form the basis of a chapter-by-chapter refutation of these anti-Catholic works???

Great idea David! Provided all those who've answered give me the permission to use their responses, I could put together an Apologetics Section on Glorify-God.

Let's go through the rest of the book together here in this forum to get answers for those topics not addressed already.

By the end of it all, we'll be the most 'professional pro-Catholics' ever

Blessings on all of you my family,

Melody

[Seeker]

If any of my replies are worthy, I give my permission.  Has anyone determined which chapters this forum hasn't replied to yet?

[Rev. Eric]

Hello All,

I certainly don't mind Glorify God using my responses to further the cause of Catholic apologetics.

Thank you David for the time and energy you put into tracking down all those references.

God bless,
-Rev. Eric

[Seeker]

Yes, thank you David for keeping our community legit!     In this way, you have protected us against any threats that could cause trouble for the Community by starting legal action. Thanks again!

[tklein1014]

You can use any of the material you find helpful that I've posted in an apologetics section.  I don't mind evangelizing...  

Tina

[Ayodhya Nath Bhat]

I would like to invite comments on this thread from Bro Jesusandyou and Bro Mathias.

Love

Ayodhya

[jesusandyou]

Whether you are saved or not saved is decided by someone who is seeing you. If you are Christ like then you are saved.

[jesusandyou]

Another thread discussing this issue.

http://www.jesusandyou.com/discussion/PHPb...wtopic.php?t=24

[Seeker]

Thanks for posting the link to that discussion jesusandyou.  Appreciate the chance to respond to some of the questions/comments.  I left a quick post as a Guest.